Tuesday, February 10, 2009
Cesar Coelho
It was a pleasure to be able to sit down and talk to Cesar Coehlo after his tango workshops in Manhattan. Despite having given an intense set of classes during the day, and needing to rest for a photo shoot early the next morning, Cesar gave up his time to walk over to a coffee shop nearby and share his insights and thoughts. The passion and openness with which he spoke was much appreciated. Cesar has an extensive background in tango, ballet and jazz. He is well known for his precision and energy on stage particularly as the lead in the Broadway show “Forever Tango”. Cesar proves to be a talented dance teacher at such a young age, driving his students to understand more than just the steps to the dance. “He is amazing,” commented one of his students, “I take his classes every time he is in town, and each time I work with him, my dancing progresses so much further.”Tasleem- I find it very effective the way you focus so much on the fundamentals in your workshops, rather than overloading students with a bunch of fancy steps. It made me want to learn more. Can you explain your reasoning behind this?
Cesar- Well, tango is more than a dance. It’s a culture. We use the dance as an excuse to express what we are bringing and taking from our country, from our experiences. That’s why I really pay attention to the fundamentals.
In the very beginning, tango started as an excuse to be related with a woman- as a meeting, not as a dance. The dance came after. That’s why I’m always pushing the fundamentals onto the students.
First, you need to understand why you are dancing. That’s why I talk a lot in the class, because people come to the class as an excuse to have fun. They don’t really know what they are doing, or what tango really is. That’s what I am always trying to explain to the students. It’s really a serious dance. It IS serious. It’s not about having fun. But once you understand the dance, you can get pleasure from it, not fun, but pleasure. It’s not about the movement. It’s more than the movement. The movement comes, and is born, from the essence. And the essence is a way of life, I mean, the way that Argentine people live. That’s why the lyrics are the way they are. That’s why the music is the way it is. You have to understand that before you can really learn tango.
You use a lot of analogies or visualizations to help explain the feeling behind the dance, especially the connections between the dancers and the music. You’ve said things like, “You have to breathe as one,” or “the couple is like the bandoneon” (the instrument often used in tango music). Could you talk a little about this?Yes, well, we have a pattern- the music. And we are two people dancing. But you have a pyramid with the music. First we need to synchronize the level of energy that we have as a couple. If one person has more energy than the other person, the meeting is going to be impossible. So that’s why I say, “Breathe. Find yourself. Meet the energies. Equalize the energy.” And then we are going to be able to share it. Once we start to share and we equalize the energy, the music will own us. We really need to relax. Then the music will take control of us as a couple. It’s very hard to achieve that.
Good question (smiles). No, I didn’t choose this in the beginning. No, no, especially not tango. My father introduced me to tango. I was very young. That’s why I didn’t choose tango then. I used to play basketball. I used to play sports. That’s what I related to. Tango was too serious for me at that age. I was fifteen years old. It was too serious and I didn’t understand how to relate with a woman, or how to even relate with a person. But once I started to understand how to relate, how to socialize, with different people, I started to understand tango. That’s the way I really got deeper into tango and I started to like it, to pay attention to it. But no, it wasn’t my choice.
But it’s true that it’s like a drug. Once you understand it, you will never leave it. You will never quit. You will take some distance. Sometimes you will get tired, you will get fed up, but then it’s going to be there. And tango will wait for you, because tango is expression. It’s going to be there, always. Even if you go away, it will be waiting.
Is it difficult to teach this dance, especially if what you are trying to teach is more than just the dance steps?
Tango as a dance is about body language. It’s very interesting to feel the energies of different people. But sometimes, because of that, you get tired, like I was tonight. I wasn’t strong enough to support all the energy that people required around me. It can be tiring if you are giving your energy, but you are not receiving enough back. Maybe you noticed that (smiles).
Yes, you said something about that to the class, briefly. And I heard you say more about it later on.
Yes. It’s really hard to teach. It requires a LOT of energy. And it depends on how you WANT to teach. Like I said to the class, I could have taught them many fancy steps- ganchos and turns and all that. It would actually be easier for me. But I want them to learn what is really important about tango, what tango is really about. But if they don’t give me the same energy, then it’s tiring. I like teaching but it is hard. If people are really listening, then it is easier.
I was telling a friend of mine about tango. He loves dancing. He does a lot of salsa dancing. I know he would really enjoy tango, but he’s turned off of it because he feels like the age group for tango is a lot older. You are very young, but it seems like tango is more geared towards an older crowd, or attracts an older crowd, especially in North America. Do you agree?
Yes, but it’s changing. It IS changing.
You think so?Yes. It’s changing a lot. And you have to remember that tango is a cultural thing. You need certain experiences to understand tango, and some of that comes with age. You cannot understand sadness if you’ve never been sad before. If you’re a child and you’ve never been sad inside, it’s hard to understand. That’s an example. It’s the same thing with happiness, with hope, with love, with winning and losing. And tango is about expressing yourself, your experience. It’s about that. It’s the directions that you take in life. But if you are too young to have those experiences, then it’s hard to express in the dance.
In the same way, you can be attracted by the dance first. But then you start to understand what tango really is, and after some time, something deeper will attract you.
It’s interesting for me to look at the history of tango compared to what you are teaching about it now. Tango was associated with brothels and was seen as a very seductive dance. But when YOU’RE teaching, you talk so much about respecting your partner, and finding yourself, centering yourself, gaining confidence. Can you explain this difference between the past and present of tango?
It’s the human race. It breaks up, or breaks apart. The dance too -the tango, the music, everything- it breaks apart, or some of it does. We take the elements, we polish them, and we improve our language. Tango is a language, and it has changed in some ways over time. We are not used to talking the same way we used to talk. It’s the same thing with the dance. But the PASSION is still there. The PURPOSE is still there. The ROOT is still there. The essence, the ESSENCE- that’s what is important. We don’t lose that. We can’t. And then we learn to take it further.
I never got a chance to see the show Forever Tango. But I did see Volver al Sur, which you performed in recently. I just thought it was amazing. And I read some of the articles that were written about it and your other performances. One writer in particular commented on how the common saying “It takes two to tango,” doesn’t seem to apply to you. He said that when you perform, it’s like you are dancing not just with your partner, it’s like you’re dancing with the whole audience as well. I could feel that when I was watching you on stage. You make the audience feel what you are feeling. Are you attempting to do that when you are on stage? Are you aware of the energy of the audience when you are performing or are you completely in your own world?
Good. Another good question. It’s very difficult for a professional dancer to really be inside- inside of the couple, inside of yourself- when you have thousands of people looking at you. That’s when I say that tango belongs to three. Why? Well because the leader is always in the future. He’s thinking one millisecond in the future about what he’s going to lead, and thinking about the steps he’s going to take, and how he’s going to lead his partner. The follower is in the present, because she follows, feels and she steps in the present. And the third person- the one watching or the audience- is in the past. The audience watches all that has gone on. They are not invited. They spy on the couple. They ARE spying on the couple. But you have to wake their interest TO spy. If you don’t wake their interest, they are not going to want to spy. So they are not going to watch the movement. But they really want to get IN to the couple. But they are not invited.
It’s really hard to achieve that point. It’s really hard to achieve it. It’s a level of energy and feeling in the soul, and it’s really hard. You won’t always achieve it. It all depends on your partner- how you match energies with her. If you match, and the music matches, the atmosphere matches, then that interest- the audience’s interest - will be born. They will want to spy. They want to get into it, but they are not invited because it’s OUR world. But we have to create that interest.
What do you do to keep developing your skills?
Tango is born in the soul. But we are using the tool that is the body. And we need to improve that tool to let the soul express. If our soul is free, but our tool is rough, it doesn’t match. So I have to take my tool- my body- further, to let my soul go further. But it’s not that I release all that, and do it by myself or keep it for myself. All that I have, I also give to my partner. All that I achieve, all that I have, I give to my partner. We need that in order to dance tango together. That’s what I push forward in my students, to really take the steps further. Then you will be able to cut them, or to make the space smaller. To make it more intimate. But you need to sharpen the tool.
I do at least one class a day, any kind of technique- ballet, jazz, anything. I need to discover, and I need to fill up my soul with different energies and to exercise my muscles.
I’m traveling all the time. This is my job and I need to do it. If you gave me the choice, I would stay in my country. I would come here just to visit. And I would teach, when I feel like teaching. What happens when you spend a lot of time in the same city? You start to know the bad things about that city. And you start to become PART of the city. If you become part of the city, in certain ways, it’s good. But as an artist, it’s bad, because you’re not going to be original anymore. That’s why you have to come back to the root, the essence of the tango. If I stay here, I will become like “them”. And it’s not helpful for them if I become like them. I have to bring something new to my students, to the people, every time I come back here. I do love the city, but I need to refresh myself all the time.
Is Argentina always going to be home to you?
YES….Uh, no. Uhm, I’m not sure. I’m not sure.
Oh yes! A gypsy! (laughs).
Yes, a gypsy. I’m traveling around all the time, and learning so much about different cultures. And it’s very interesting. In certain ways, this is very related to tango. The experiences, what I am experiencing, are the link to tango. Everyone lives this, everyone lives before the tango dance. Like the people spying into the tango. Even the music you prefer- it all depends on the colour of your soul. What you lived in your life before- your interpretation of the music will depend on this, you will match it to your experiences in life. Maybe I love Piazolla, maybe you don’t. It all depends on you. What you did before in your life.
As I said before, tango is much more than a dance. We are taking the steps as an excuse to express our feelings, TO CHAT. The steps are just simple words. And we use the words to express ourselves, to build sentences. They are words. And depending on how we use the words we are going to express ourselves in different ways.
But, this is without talking. It’s a language without talking. That’s always what I’m trying to say. And every time we have an encounter we can use the language to just have fun and talk about whatever, or we can go deeper. With tango, it is deeper. It is a language that is deeper.
I hope you understand. It’s very difficult for me to explain in English.
Actually, I was about to say that I can’t believe that even in your workshop you were apologizing for your English. You express yourself very poetically. It’s very hard to do that in a second language, but you express yourself well. I understand what you’re saying because of your words, but more than that, it’s because of the FEELING behind your words. There’s an energy that you project, even without speaking.
That is tango (smiles). That’s why I said in class that tango is not steps. It’s ONE step that never ends. Once you start, it NEVER ends. You never quit your energy. It’s there. It’s alive. Even if you are quiet, it’s there. It’s an ongoing energy between us. Sometimes we can be looking at each other, and we don’t even say a word. But a look says much more than a hundred words. In tango, a pause means much more than a hundred steps. You have tango instructors, tango dancers and tango artists. How they dance and teach depends on what they are pushing forward. I want people to understand what tango really means. It is so much more than what people think.
Saturday, May 1, 2010
Branch Out With Elizabeth Helene Roy- dancer, pilates instructor and creative thinker
Elizabeth-Helene and I met a couple of years ago on the dance floor, literally. We were at a salsa club and she came up and asked me if I wanted to dance. I said yes, but was unsure what to expect. I quickly found out that not only could that girl move, but her skills as a lead on the dance floor were pretty impressive! Since then, I’ve gotten to know Elizabeth-Helene not only as a fellow dancer but as a good friend. She is a great source of inspiration and possesses a positive, insightful and soulful outlook on life. I couldn’t help but to smile when I realized recently that this interview began and ended, unplanned, with the image of a tree. The way the interview just organically came around to create a beautiful, fluid whole from beginning to end is just so fitting for Elizabeth-Helene in many ways. Her free spirit and courage to allow things to just happen as they should is admirable.Tasleem: Many salsa dancers see each other regularly at various dance venues, and we may know a little about each other’s dance styles. But we don’t always get to know each other off of the dance floor. I have had the pleasure of finding out more about you over the past couple of years, and you are one of the most creative people I know. I hope that through this interview, I can share a little of you with others, because those who haven't gotten to know you don't know what they're missing!
Elizabeth-Helene: Thank you. That’s a beautiful comment.
Even just rereading your blog today gave me goose bumps. I love the title of it- Tap into the Sap. You’ve described it so mysteriously as “ nothing and everything.” And I’m so intrigued by the word “sap” because you’ve commented that “you have to know what the sap is in order to tap into it”. Can you give us at least a little hint of what that means?
So you want to know how to tap into it without even getting to know it? (laughs)
Yes. I know, I know (laughs). But after telling you what the word “sap” conjures up for me, I didn’t get a chance to ask you what it means to you, why you chose “sap” in particular.
I was looking for a word that would include the idea of energy, that would include Kundalini, as it’s called in yoga , or the power source. In Pilates, we refer to it as the core, or being centered. I wanted a word that would summarize the belief of connecting to your source- your source of power-physically, or source of energy-spiritually, or the spirit itself.
And I thought sap what would be a good word that would be so Canadian. (laughs).
(Laughs)- Oh, that’s brilliant.
Well, I’m not Indian, so I couldn’t go with Kundalini. And I wasn’t born with Sanskrit. And some of the other words come from other heritages as well. So I thought what is a word I really understand or fits my Canadian background? And I thought of the maple leaf on our flag and the maple tree. And the sap that flows through the maple tree.
So I went with that. And it worked because I could really see the body in this image- from our feet- the root, all the way to the top of the head, the crown- leaves. And then our torso, our spine, is like the trunk- it’s all connected with the sap going through IT. So it kind of brought the center spine image forth, which is important in Pilates. It brought the center liquid of energy, of the Kundalini, into the image.
So the Tap into the Sap class that I’m teaching is everything that I feel helped me and will hopefully help you (or the client), to connect to that. It involves a lot of spinal movement, a lot of fluid movement, a lot of centering movement in order to have a better flow of that energy. And only when you have done these movements and you KNOW what that sap really means will you be able to tap into it.
I later went online and saw the title used by an event at a Maple Syrup Shack. And I thought, “Oh, it’s taken. I like to be unique.” But it was used in a different context. So I went ahead and said, “That sounds good. That’s EXACTLY what I mean.”
So you mentioned movement and the spine. You were dancing and doing a lot of physical activity from a very young age. Was there some influence in your life that allowed you to feel the importance of that movement and have that passion for it?
I guess the passion for movement came very early because my dad loved to dance. And he was a good dancer. And the story goes that he was winning a lot of contests in cha cha dancing, and rock and roll, when he was about eighteen or twenty. It was in a small town, we’re not talking internationally. But I guess that’s where I got that interest. And my parents met dancing.
I didn’t know that.
Yes. I think that might have been their first date. And still to this day, they’ll go dancing. But even at a young age, I wanted to put dance together. I remember at eight years old, I had this little routine with umbrellas. It was put together with two other girls. And probably around a year later, we had a little gymnastics fitness dance routine. And I did gymnastics and I did dance classes in high school. And I guess I just loved to move. I couldn’t stand still. I needed to move. And I felt dancing was just the freest expression. And those were the days where there were no inhibitions too.
I was not aware of my body when I was younger. I was all over the place. I don’t like rules, so I’ve never been good at doing a type of dance like ballet or ballroom that is very strict. And I didn’t have body awareness. I just wanted to be free.
But the spine and body awareness came about when I started Pilates. I was in university studying dance, and in my second year, I had a body awareness, or anatomy class. It used Pilates to teach anatomy. And one of Joseph Pilates’ (the founder of Pilates) catch lines was “You are as old as your spine.”
I like that, very interesting.
His whole work is about flexibility of your spine through body awareness; moving it but also knowing HOW to move it. And so that was a key moment when I realized how to move my spine. It moved before, but I did not move it well. It’s easy to just dance limbs, not spine.
When Joseph Pilates opened his studio in New York, I think it was just above or below a dance studio. So every injured dancer would just go up to his studio because it was right there, so accessible. And Joseph Pilates knew about anatomy, so they felt safe with him. He knew body movement, how it works, and he knew how to modify his work to each student’s injuries. And dancers became not only more flexible because of his work, but also stronger. They were able to strengthen their cores through Pilates. And Pilates also had a lot of the eastern philosophy associated with it. And artists like that. They usually like to explore different ways to know their body, to know the world. So I think a dance connection was there right from the start. And a lot of dancers do Pilates now. It helps them to strengthen their bodies, but also to be safe, to move safely, and to prevent injuries.
Pilates helped me to be more grounded. It helped me to know my space, to know anatomy at a deeper level. And that was just the beginning of it for me. Because now, fifteen years later, it has led me to just be completely fascinated by the body itself, the mechanics of the body, and the importance of being aware of my body. It helps with the dancing, for sure.
That idea of being fascinated by the workings of the body reminds me of some of the quotes you have on your blog. In particular, the idea that your body has its own intuition and ability to heal is so interesting to me. The lines that stand out to me are the ones you quoted from the book The Pregnant Virgin: “Your body has a wisdom of its own,” and “dropping the mind into the body” is important. Can you explain this further?
I should mention that the book Angel Tech also talks about the wisdom of the body. It says that the body will literally just make itself heard, will bend over backwards, will scream loud to when it is in pain or discomfort. But if the mind is too busy, and just running around, and not sure what to do, so focused on worry and fear, it does not listen to the body.
But yes, as the quote you mentioned says, your body has wisdom, and usually, when we feel pain, it’s the body communicating something. This is our body, but it has its own identity, in a way. So if it’s just being dragged around like a pet, and never been heard, it’s going to start screaming. You have to listen to it. Pilates helped me gain knowledge of my body, the breath helped me calm down, and the DEEP breath, that I’m trying to share now with those interested, helped me get access to that sap, to be in touch with that body of wisdom and to learn how to listen to my body.
I remember the first time that I read your bio. And I was so inspired or maybe even envious that you did a BFA in dance. What were the classes like? Can you describe how the program was set up?
The program that was at Concordia in Montreal was to generate students that would become contemporary choreographers. Every morning, we’d have two- hour ballet and modern technique classes. That was for the three years. It was just like when a business student goes to an accounting class, or management class, except we went to technique class. And we did that for credits towards the diploma (laughs).
I would have loved that (laughs).
One class called Creative Process involved creative thinking, or creative choreographing. It taught us how to see movement, seeing different levels in dance- down low, or high. And it also taught us how to play with movement- being sure that a piece is balanced, making sure there’s speed and stillness in it. We learned how costumes and music affect dance pieces, and the different effects that using popular music versus jazz, versus sound effects would have.
And that was a gift to all the choreographies that I’ve done since then. Because then I wanted to be sure they all had all those components.
Another class was about the history of dance, and we also went to see shows and were expected to report back on them in class. That was to ensure we were getting creative ideas from other sources and exploring. Because when you’re able to critique another person’s dance, then you’re able to critique your OWN dance. If you’re able to see the aspects you like and don’t like then you can incorporate that in your own dances.
Another part of the program was theater management or dance management- how to own a dance company, as well as business management skills. Some of this was added with other arts, because it was a Fine Arts program, so we did some theater, we did some music, some drawing.
And I did a minor in Education.
How much did the minor in Education contribute to your skills as a teacher?
Well, it was only a minor so it didn’t have a practical part to it. But it did give me a better understanding of people and psychology. So that was helpful.
But I think teaching is almost a personality. You have to be able to observe. I have to be able to just look at the students, instead of focusing on me, me, me. And that’s the difference between performance – which is about me, and showing me to the world, compared to teaching. When you teach, it’s about them (the students), and the world coming to them. You find and learn ways to bring the art and skills to them.
And maybe I got some teaching skills from my mother. She was a teacher. And then when I started teaching Pilates, I had to go through a teacher training program- five hundred hours of just practical teaching. That helped a lot.
You’ve been teaching some breath work classes recently. Why is breathing and learning HOW to breath effectively so important?
Breath seems to be the keyword of 2010, or at least that’s my prediction.
It has been important to me, especially in the last year. When I was taught a certain breath technique, it helped me to really reach a level of calmness, of centering, of grounding, of being; being in myself. And that’s what I’m trying to reproduce with my classes.
The breath is important, and has been in so many cultures. And that curiosity to know about the breath opened me to a whole new world. And yes, there’s the everyday breath. If we don’t breath, we die. And that’s the common knowledge.
But if you start looking at it further, it’s really fascinating. You breathe in- oxygen O2, and you breathe out CO2, and the plant does the reverse. If you have that knowledge, and really think about it, you start realizing oh, okay, we have this sharing thing going on now (smiles). It’s kind of like teamwork.
Is that why all my plants were dying, because I wasn’t breathing properly? (laughs)
(laughs) You weren’t giving them any food, see? CO2.
But that’s kind of interesting knowledge. The breath that I teach is a very complete breath (She breathes in deeply), really stretching the rib cage. And it takes an awareness of your body, of your ribs. It takes a mixture of work to do that. You cannot think about the groceries you have to get, or the errands you have to run. You have to be (takes a very deep breath in through her nose) thinking about it- the breath only. You have to be in the now. You have to be calm, you have to be centered. You have to just be body aware. And that changes your brain waves from beta brain waves running around you - cell phones ringing, traffic, and demands of society- to alpha brain waves. And then you just breathe.
And it’s important to match this practice with knowledge of how breath doesn’t just help you, but it helps the workings of the entire world. Think about this- the universe is made up of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. And that makes up pretty much everything in the whole universe. Everything is built from four ingredients. So when you breathe in oxygen from the air, that same ingredient- oxygen- is in the water- H2O. It’s in the crust of the earth, in CO2. So basically, in that little breath (She takes another deep breath in) you’re breathing in the four ingredients of life. And that on its own is energizing. And it connects you to your sap. So you can tap into it just by (takes in another deep breath) breathing in, taking in the whole universe with that breath. And just the thought of it, well, you have food right there (smiles). That’s why after doing a breath session, you feel clear, you feel calm, you feel (takes in another deep breath) satisfied. The body has been FED with purest, of purest energy.
You cannot get better than that.
That's a beautiful way of looking at it and it gives each breath much more significance and purpose to the world.
I enjoyed watching the videos you showed me of your past performances. And I'm sorry I missed the recent performance of your contemporary piece. It incorporated quite a few different skills- dancing, stage directing, costumes, choreography. How did you feel about getting into it again after so long?
It was a great opportunity. At first, I said I’ll do a little salsa or something. But then I thought, maybe I’ll do what I trained in- contemporary dance, or something within those lines. I like originality, and being informative through movement and performance. So I started to study dance again, to prepare for this piece. I read about George Gurdjieff, because his ideas were of particular interest to me. He worked on dance movement and described dance like books. He presented dance pieces and each movement as a page of a book (smiles). Each movement, each page, had meaning to it. It was a nice way to share information.
How do you create a dance piece from scratch? Do you start with one movement and add to it? Or are you picturing the actual space you’re using for it?
I guess every person that creates has their own setup. For me, I look at the big picture. And I think globally, what the idea is from beginning to end, what is going to happen. Then depending on the text for that piece, I have sections. Each section has a meaning. So that’s how I went about creating this last performance. I think about what that particular part is about. And then I decide what would reflect that section. So I try to find mudras, shapes of the body, ways of moving, and details to fit that part. Even the direction I face has a meaning. But I work on how it flows and the depth in it too. And at the same time, I’m still working with the levels, and working with the space, and working with speed, energy and all those aspects of choreography that I studied in university.
It was very well put together. Your lines and expression and the range of movements were really captivating.
Thank you
As I said before, you are such a creativite person and you and your ideas inspire me a lot. But I’m wondering who inspires you. If you could interview or talk to anyone in the world, who would you choose and why?
You mean besides Keanu Reeves? (laughs) Actually, I’m sure he knows a lot. I would probably talk Buddhism with spirituality and energy with him.
But I’d love to talk to the author Paulo Coelho for sure. He seems like a fascinating person. I’ve read so many of his books and he writes in a way that I can completely relate to what he’s saying. He has such a great understanding of people.
Actually, if you look at his soft cover books, there’s an image of tree that he includes on the back pages. On each branch, he shows how each one of his books has a central theme for him. One might be about passion, another about patience. But when you see all of these themes put together on the tree, all the branches coming out of the same trunk, the same root, you see he has a plan. All of his books come together to create one total piece, a complete work. It’s fascinating.
For more information about Elizabeth Helene's classes as well as her current travels, check out http://www.tapintothesap.blogspot.com/
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Monday, April 27, 2009
Thunderous Applause for Thundering Word
I still remember the first time I met Bill McNamara. His voice- so strong and jubilant- made me think, "This guy should be on radio, or an emcee or an actor or something." Well, it turns out I wasn't too far off. Bill is the host of Thundering Word, Vancouver's popular Sunday open mic nights, held at Cafe Montmartre. He also is an artist, a writer, and an actor. It was through Bill that I got introduced to Wanda Nowicki, the co-host of Thundering Word. It was her voice that first captured my attention as well- smooth, jazzy vocals so soothing and mesmerizing. Like Bill, Wanda is a multi-talented artist. She is a singer and performer, and has worked in theater and modeling for a number of years.
What has impressed me the most however, is not just the voices behind these two individuals, but the words and thoughts they impart with those voices. Through their time and efforts at Thundering Word, Bill and Wanda have shown tremendous support for the arts and artists around them. They provide artists with a place to practise, develop, and share their art with a larger community. And I can say from personal experience that Thundering Word serves as a huge inspiration for artists of all kinds. It reminds us of the importance of art in shaping our lives, and gives value to all our voices.
How did Thundering Word get started and could you say a little bit about the founder, T-Paul?
Bill- T-Paul Ste. Marie was a poet, an actor, a writer, and artist- just a jack of all trades in the whole entertainment scene. He saw a need for an open mic that would be open to everybody, rather than so many open mics that are SPECIFIC to one type of art. Some open mics might be for blues music, or for comedy. But if you show up at a comedy open mic with a guitar, and tell them you want to sing a folk song, they’ll tell you to get out. T-Paul thought he would go the whole variety show route. He started it up and it took off right away. Plus, he was a very dynamic host. He was a guy with a BIG personality. And there are all kinds of T-Paul legendary stories around.
How long did he run Thundering Word?
Bill- He kept it going for six years. And then one night, my wife Diana and I were at the Cafe. And he was complaining of a headache all weekend. And then halfway through the show he said, “Bill, you gotta drive me home. I gotta lie down.”
We called an ambulance, got him into the hospital, and it turned out he had a brain aneurism. He had an operation and he was out of the hospital about three weeks later.
He started up Thundering Word again. And then it was exactly one year and one day later that he had another aneurism. It killed him in his home. He was forty one years old. It was a big loss to the community. It was also the best wake I have ever been to, anywhere, anytime. It was held in this beautiful loft. And there were people from every walk of life there – there were film directors, there were writers, there were actors, there were performers, singers, band members, all kinds. Everybody was there- poets and spoken word artists. It was just the most exhilarating wake. It spoke well to T-Paul. So Thundering Word sat dormant for a few months. People were constantly saying how much they missed it. But nobody was stepping forward to take up the reigns.
How did you and Wanda end up taking over?
At first, it didn’t seem like such a big deal to me. I thought, “This can’t be very hard.” And I’m not a real music expert, but Wanda is. So I talked to Wanda and said, “We should do this.” And I asked around the community and everybody said, “Yeah yeah. You SHOULD do this. YOU should do this… yeah.” And I found out later that I SHOULD do it because it’s a lot of work! (laughs)
Wanda- (laughs)
Bill- it was WAY more work than I anticipated.
But Wanda and I have been carrying it on pretty well for the last two years. So that’s eight years that Thundering Word has been going now- six under T-Paul, two under us. And it seems to get better all the time. I keep thinking that maybe I’m too close to judge that. But then people outside of it have come to us many times and said that it’s actually getting better and better every time. And they really like our audience. They really like our venue and the ambiance that’s created there. It’s a very welcoming atmosphere because we ARE open to everybody.
Did you both start out as audience members first, or did you know T-Paul personally before you found out about Thundering Word?
Wanda- I had only been there once, as an audience member, because Bill and Diana had brought me. When T-Paul was still alive, I only saw ONE Thundering Word show.
Bill- I had gone there quite a bit.
Wanda- You would perform, right (to Bill)? You used to be one of the “open-mic-ers”.
Bill- I was doing spoken word and poetry. And both of those things took place on nights OTHER than T-Paul’s Sundays. And so it was really great, especially with the poetry. I could go to Thundering Word on a Sunday night, practise a new poem, and get up and see if it worked. I could see what kind of reaction I would get from the audience. It also helps you in identifying weak areas. It’s a good place to tune up any of your new material, or if you wanted to revisit something you hadn’t done for a long time. For musicians it’s the same. Musicians like to come there and revisit some of their early work, their older songs. And they also like to try out new stuff there. It’s the perfect venue for that.
You have had some great features at Thundering Word, since I’ve been going there. Artists like Jack McCarthy and Barbara Adler. How do you go about finding the features? Do they approach you, or do you go and seek out particular artists?
Bill- We have pursued a few. But actually, about seventy percent come to us. For example, before Christmas, we wanted to sign up a couple of acts for 2009. We thought, it’s going to be our new year. We can figure out our spring lineup later. But right now, we should just get some people for late January, maybe February.
And we signed up Dave Paterson for the first week of January. And it worked out, and the next thing we know, we were booked until May 31st! We didn’t even ANNOUNCE that we were signing people up. But people WANT to come to Thundering Word. They want to be featured there. And we’ve had people from England, from all over the US and different parts of Canada.
Wanda- Lots of artists will be coming through Vancouver on a tour anyways. So our city will host them somewhere, and they will contact Bill and let them know that this particular performer is coming to town. They will ask, “Can you also accommodate him at Thundering Word?” So that’s how we get a certain percentage of our acts. I don’t know the exact number- twenty percent, maybe?
But then some of our music acts we get from just being out. Bill and Diana will just be out somewhere or I’ll be out somewhere, and sometimes we’re out TOGETHER. And we’ll see somebody, an act we like. I went to the Cottage Bistro for a birthday party for the owner. And there was a musician there- he played the guitar and was quite the entertainer. And I booked him! So sometimes, it’ll be random. But then, the biggest compliment is when people find us. For example, these two kids .. (laughs) –“Kids”- I call them kids, but they’re in their twenties…
Tasleem- (laughs)
Wanda- But they got up to do their ten minutes and they said that they had heard about us in San Francisco. And they had gone to the website and so when they came into Vancouver, to hang out, they specifically planned to make it out to Thundering Word.
So they showed up and they did a great job. And they wrote Bill and said “We’d like to feature.” They asked, and they were good, so I said to Bill, “Yeah, let’s do it!”
We want to get more people from out of town anyway. PLUS, most people who do feature will say “yes” again. Whether they come to us, or whether Bill and I say, “You know, so and so was great, so let’s have him back,” they usually say yes right away, which is very flattering (smiles). It is VERY flattering.
And it’s really nice to have the opportunity to be able to ask someone to perform. Normally, you go out, and you see someone, and you think, “Man, that person’s good.” You go to many of their shows and you’ve made some friends. But we are in the position to be able to go up and say, “You know what? I HAVE a show. Would you like to perform there?” It’s great, you know.
And a lot of musicians make fifty dollars at other places and usually have to play three sets. So fifty dollars for playing at Thundering Word for a half an hour with a built in audience… that’s a good deal. And Bill does AMAZING work with posters. I just wanted to say that (to Bill), because you have put a lot of effort into promoting the shows. You did posters for every feature, and you’ve kept the website up to date. And I think that has helped a lot.
Bill- Well, it’s not just me. I think you’re (to Wanda) sixty percent of why people come there. And the Montmartre holds between 65 and 70 people. And quite often, we pack it. We’ve actually had nights where we’ve turned people away because of fire regulations.
Wanda- but Bill advertises a lot.
Bill – Every now and again we’ll go out and give out fliers. Actually, we got a crowd in from Chilliwack last time because of it (laughs).
Wanda- Yeah (laughs).
Bill- I was out at Chilliwack the other night, and I handed out a bunch of fliers. Then I followed that by going to a party out in Fort Langley and handed out a bunch of fliers there. And I kept thinking, “Well, this just let’s these people know what we’re doing. I DOUBT they’re going to show up.” But they ALL showed up!
Tasleem- (laughs)
Bill (laughs)- Our audience is pretty unpredictable.
Wanda- Yeah, and it’s wonderful when new people come in because it keeps it interesting. It’s a change from the regulars for both the audience members and performers. It keeps it diverse and that’s kind of nice.
Ali, from the Café, has asked us to do the open mic EVERY Sunday. But we’d rather have a really GREAT night every other week, than a half audience every week.
Going back to what you were saying about Bill doing posters, I know that both of you have your own artistic talents, besides running and hosting Thundering Word. Bill, I know you have a background in animation, and you write, and do some acting. And Wanda, I know you sing. I’m sorry I missed your show the other night, but I checked out your website and your voice is amazing.
Bill- Isn’t it?
Yes, she’s great. And that song “I Live Alone, But I Like It”. Wow! I really like that one.
Wanda- Yeah. I sing and I have a jazz group. And I’ve been with them for about four or five years, ever since I got back to Vancouver. I lived in Los Angeles for a few years. But then I came back to Vancouver and worked with these two guys as a trio.
Do you have regular shows?
Right now, we play about once a month. I play at the Heritage Grill in New Westminster. And then usually I’ll do an event or party. We’ll play at that. And then there’s the jazz festival. This will be our fourth year playing at the festival. Our date is June 30th. And the festival runs from about the last week of June until about Canada Day.
And you both do some acting as well?
Bill- Just little parts. But yeah, as I’ve gotten older, now that my hair is grey and I have my white beard, I have a tendency to get asked to do some small roles.
I think it’s your voice too. You have such a distinct voice.
Wanda- Yeah, a distinct voice and he does a good double take (laughs)
Bill- (laughs)
In the two years that you’ve been running Thundering Word, is there a particular act or performance that stood out to you for whatever reason?
Wanda- There are so many. I would hate to miss any.
Bill –Well, there was this one girl, Hannah Georgas. One of our artist friends Chelsea brought her. She seemed kind of shy, but a very striking kind of girl. And she had a beautiful voice. She sang this song and every second word started with F. And it’s the last thing you’d expect out of her. She just had the audience in stitches (laughs). And I thought, “This girl’s going to go somewhere!” Well, she just finished playing Juno Fest. She’s been at the Railway Club as a feature many times. She’s got a couple of CD’s out. And she’s been on CBC…
Wanda- We had never seen her before. And she started singing, and maybe halfway through the second song, Bill’s says, “She is pretty good, isn’t she?” Then I said, “Yeah, we could feature her.”
What about young artists? I was impressed to see a couple of really young poets and musicians on your stage.
Wanda- Yes. Well, there is Eric, who is one of our youngest.
Bill- Yeah, he’s this little kid, fourteen years old. Eric Cambell. He was at the Cottage. And he just stepped in with a Blues band up there. The audience thought, "Holy Cow!" See, when Eric was fourteen, he looked like he was twelve, or maybe ten. He’s got this real baby face, big dimples, you know?
And so I gave him my card. He came out to Thundering Word on our opening night. And he got a monstrous standing ovation. So a couple of month’s later, we featured him. And he got ANOTHER standing O. I guess he’s sixteen now.
And there was a very talented poet- a young girl who I heard not too long ago.
Bill- That's Paige Wilson. She’s absolutely fearless. Smart as a whip too. And she was eleven when she first went up. She’s twelve now.
Do you have any advice for someone who has never gone up at the Café but would like to? I’m sure it can be intimidating, especially the first time.
Wanda- The advice that I would give is just go up there and try to relax, and have fun. We are really with you. You can hit a honking flat note, you could read a mediocre poem, you could bump your teeth or head on the mic out of nervousness…Nobody cares.
We WANT you to be good. THEY want you to be good. And it’s okay if you make a mistake because poets have forgotten words before, singers have gotten halfway through the song and gone, “Whoah, uhhh..I can’t remember the verse.” So just as much as possible, don’t care. The audience will love it. I still get nervous, especially now that I’m a host. I have to take a few breaths at first.
Bill- Also, because of the shape of Montmartre, the audience is sort of the wider part of the stage. And it isn’t very wide. There might be sixty people there. But when you’re on stage, you see about ten of them because of the shape and the lights. And I just imagine that the back, because it's so dark and far, looks like a bunch of chairs stacked on top of one another. So then it's as if you're only talking to a small group of people, rather than a big audience.
Also, what Wanda said is VERY true. Our audience is different. If we go out and check out other open mics, on other nights, like a Friday, for example, that audience is full of people who worked all week. They want to get drunk. They want to talk while the act is going on. They want to meet women, and the women want to meet men.
But our audience is there on a Sunday night. They know they’re going to have to go to work or school the next day. They’re not there to get drunk. They’re not there to meet other people. They just want some entertainment. They listen. So they’re quiet and respectful. And again, no matter what you do, you always get a round of applause.
What does Art mean to you? What is your motivation for putting so much time and energy into promoting the arts and all these artists at the Café?
Wanda- I know that I’ve done a lot of work in the arts. I’ve done theater and I’ve done singing. I’ve done voiceover work. But I had never been a host, ever. So Bill presented that opportunity to me. So it can be a challenge sometimes. It can be tricky. But I like that.
And I myself had to do a bunch of open mics. I sang. So it’s nice for me NOW to be in a position where I am able to help keep an open mic going and give other people an opportunity. I think that’s important. They have to have somewhere to go. And then they’ll get better and better and better. And so it was nice to be a part of something like this. I had gotten lots of help from people at their open mics for many years. And now I can be on the other side, GIVING help. And it’s especially great that we have the opportunity to book features.
And how about you Bill?
Bill- Art is something that creates a pressure inside of the people it inhabits. I speak from personal experience. For example, as a kid I always had the urge to draw. I had no idea what I was doing, but I never stopped.
Also, with acting, one night an old biker friend and I were talking about movies and we decided that being in a movie was like being immortal. The old actors, like Humphrey Bogart, Cary Grant, Lana turner, Jane Russel and James Cagney may be dead, but they are still on film and people remember them....
I kept that in my mind for a long time. Then, years later, the lovely Wanda talked me into going to Story Slam and that was that. I went there and I won this thing. And then I won the next one, and the next one. And then I became the Vancouver Story Slam Champ in 2005. I can honestly say that Wanda gave me a whole new life. And so much has happened since then.
So, "Art"... It's a thing that eats at you, boils inside you, is raging to be released and so frustrating when it isn't. Some people don't have that. There are times when I envy those people. But when the rare occasion happens when it does get released and it works well, you know it's all been worth it. Wanda gave me the opportunity to try a new way of drawing... with words! She encouraged me to try poetry and other things too.
Then two small acting jobs came my way and now there’s Thundering Word. It's like a great chance to give back and make it easier for other artists of every stripe to release that pressure out of their systems on stage. It lets people have a voice and a place to use it. We are both very happy to be able to provide that. It seems like the right thing to do and is extremely satisfying.
To find out more about Thundering Word, or hear some of Wanda's tracks, go to http://www.myspace.com/thunderingword
